![]() ![]() What exactly are you making of all that? What's going on? That there's some racism involved in the backlash. GREENE: Now, there has been some backlash against her on social media and then backlash to the backlash, suggesting. And I think that one of the things Marie Kondo wants to do is remove some of that burden, less by redistributing work and partly just by lessening the overall amount of work. HOLMES: Yeah, I think that most of the episodes that feature heterosexual couples do illustrate a kind of a responsibility that the woman often feels for household management. And you mentioned the focus on women, that there seems to be a gender divide that really is exposed here. GREENE: And, Linda, the episode I watched, I got, almost, a little emotional because it was really digging into some sensitive questions about families. KEVIN FRIEND: I'm 50-60 hours a week, yeah. So I was going to say, ever since I had kids was when I started to get really, like, anxious about the house being not organized. I teach intercultural communication a few days a week. KONDO: (Through interpreter) So both of you work. This was between Marie Kondo and a couple, Rachel and Kevin Friend. GREENE: I want to play a clip from one conversation that happened in an episode. And her methods of cleaning also incorporate a lot of stuff about feeling good and happy, rather than just make your office more functional. And it's kind of a encouragement to be at peace and take care of yourself. But I think this one is different because it brings together that genre of television but also what you might call self-care culture, which is mostly aimed at women. There have even been other cleaning and organizing shows. HOLMES: Well, there haven't just been lots of home makeover shows. ![]() So where does this fit in the constellation of all those shows? GREENE: The idea of a reality show that is about making over your home or making over your life, that's not new. HOLMES: Yeah, I think if that was all that people took away from this, they'd feel like it was worthwhile. Like, I learned exactly how to fold a fitted sheet which is something I've been struggling with since - I don't know - like, I was 12. GREENE: It is, right? And you learn things. She's host of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour. GREENE: To help us understand how this famous de-clutterer became such a sensation, I spoke to Linda Holmes. She has people go through all of their possessions and throw out anything that doesn't spark joy. GREENE: Now Marie Kondo has a reality show on Netflix. (SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "TIDYING UP WITH MARIE KONDO") Four years ago, a Japanese organizing consultant published a book that was called "The Life Changing Magic Of Tidying Up." ![]()
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